{"id":41504,"date":"2021-03-29T10:00:52","date_gmt":"2021-03-29T15:00:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/?p=41504"},"modified":"2026-01-16T20:17:30","modified_gmt":"2026-01-17T02:17:30","slug":"episode-4-novels-catastrophe","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-4-novels-catastrophe\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 4: Novels &#038; Catastrophe"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Between the end of the Trump presidency and the trauma of the COVID-19 pandemic, people across the globe are reeling from what feel like overlapping ruptures in historical time. All the while, daily routines and rituals continue to give life some degree of predictable regularity. It can be disorienting to constantly shift focus between mundane and world-historical events.<\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How do novels help us see the present in a broader historical perspective? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In the fourth episode of Season 2 of <em>Public Books 101<\/em>, novelist Heidi Julavits and scholar Leah Price join our host, Nicholas Dames, to consider how novels like Ling Ma&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781250214997\"><em>Severance<\/em><\/a> <\/span>represent the strange era we are currently living through.<\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><iframe style=\"width: 100%; max-width: 660px; overflow: hidden; background: transparent;\" src=\"https:\/\/embed.podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/novels-and-catastrophe-with-heidi-julavits-and-leah-price\/id1523686748?i=1000514787064\" height=\"175\" frameborder=\"0\" sandbox=\"allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>Subscribe to <\/em>Public Books 101 <em>on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/public-books-101\/id1523686748\">Apple<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/52pDLXxtxQOEJTaFPBSi3n?si=sxF5lvz8RUebjh2XzWZMcA\">Spotify<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/shoe-leather\/public-books-101\">Stitcher<\/a>, or <a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/podcast\/fffa8970-a8e4-0138-e68d-0acc26574db2\">Pocket Casts<\/a> <\/em><em>to listen and to be notified when new episodes are released. Our RSS feed is available\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/public-books-101.castos.com\/feed\">here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>View a transcript of the episode <a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/S2E4-JulavitsPrice_2021_03_24_FINAL.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Our guests<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Heidi<\/strong> <strong>Julavits<\/strong> is a founding editor of <a href=\"https:\/\/believermag.com\/\"><em>The Believer<\/em><\/a> and the author, most recently, of the <em>New York Times<\/em> Notable book\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780804171441\"><em>The Folded Clock: A Diary<\/em><\/a> (2015). With Sheila Heti and Leanne Shapton, she edited the best-selling <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780399166563\"><em>Women in Clothes<\/em><\/a> (2014). She is the author of four novels, among them\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780307387363\"><em>The Vanishers<\/em><\/a> (2012), a <em>New York Times<\/em> Notable Book and winner of the PEN New England Fiction Award. She teaches creative writing at Columbia University.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Leah Price<\/strong> is Henry Rutgers Distinguished Professor of English at Rutgers University and the author of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780521539395\"><em>The Anthology and the Rise of the Novel<\/em><\/a> (2000), <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780691159546\"><em>How to Do Things with Books in Victorian Britain<\/em><\/a> (2012), and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780465042685\"><em>What We Talk About When We Talk About Books<\/em><\/a> (2019). She writes on new and old media for the <em>New York Times Book Review<\/em>,\u00a0<em>London Review of Books<\/em>, and <em>Times Literary Supplement<\/em>, and edits the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/section\/print-screen\/\">Print\/Screen section<\/a> at\u00a0<em>Public Books<\/em>.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Nicholas Dames<\/strong>, this season\u2019s host, is an editor in chief of\u00a0<em>Public Books<\/em> and the\u00a0Theodore Kahan Professor of Humanities in the department of English and comparative literature at Columbia University. His most recent book is <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780199208968\"><em>The Physiology of the Novel: Reading, Neural Science, and the Form of Victorian Fiction<\/em><\/a> (2007). He has written on contemporary fiction, novel reading, and the humanities for the <em>Atlantic<\/em>,\u00a0<em>n+1<\/em>, the<em>\u00a0Nation<\/em>,\u00a0<em>New Left Review<\/em>, the<em>\u00a0New Yorker<\/em>, and the<em> New York Times Book Review<\/em>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Mentioned in this episode<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Books<\/strong>: Alexander Welsh&#8217;s\u00a0<em>The Hero of the Waverley Novels<\/em>, Miguel de Cervantes&#8217;s <em>Don Quixote<\/em><\/li>\n<li><strong>Authors<\/strong>: Joan Didion, George Saunders, John Cheever, Raymond Carver, Donald Barthelme<\/li>\n<li><strong>Film<\/strong>:\u00a0<em>The Devil Wears Prada<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Further reading<\/h4>\n<p class=\"nonindented\">Heidi recommends:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Nicholson Baker, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780375726217\"><em>Double Fold: Libraries and the Assault on Paper<\/em><\/a> (2001)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jenny Erpenbeck, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780811218351\"><em>Visitation<\/em><\/a>, translated from the German by Susan Bernofsky (2010), &#8220;because history is the ultimate dystopia&#8221;<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Raven Leilani, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780374194321\"><em>Luster<\/em><\/a> (2020)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ed Park, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780224082419\"><em>Personal Days<\/em><\/a> (2008)<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"nonindented\">Leah recommends<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Amaranth Borsuk, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780262535410\"><em>The Book<\/em><\/a> (2018)<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781469621630\"><i>The Enduring Book: Print Culture in Postwar America<\/i><\/a>, edited by David Paul Nord, Joan Shelley Rubin, and Michael Schudson (2009)<\/li>\n<li>George Gissing, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780198729181\"><em>New Grub Street<\/em><\/a> (1891)<\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Raven Leilani, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780374194321\"><em>Luster<\/em><\/a> (2020)<\/span><\/li>\n<li>Sheila Liming, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781501348679\"><em>Office<\/em><\/a> (2020)<\/li>\n<li>Nikil Saval, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780345802804\"><em>Cubed: A Secret History of the Workplace<\/em><\/a> (2014)<\/li>\n<li>Muriel Spark, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780811223027\"><em>A Far Cry from Kensington<\/em><\/a> (1988)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>This episode was produced by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/author\/annie-galvin\/\">Annie Galvin<\/a> and is\u00a0<span class=\"il\">licensed<\/span>\u00a0under a\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/4.0\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/4.0\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1615048763226000&amp;usg=AFQjCNFMQdN4dqK_KF19UTzPdrjKeA-Jmw\">Creative Commons-Attribution\u00a0<span class=\"il\">License<\/span><\/a> (CC-BY 4.0)<\/em>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How do novels help us see the present in a broader historical perspective?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":24,"featured_media":41505,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1982],"tags":[17,150,1712,1894,1991],"pbpartner":[],"section":[],"pbseries":[],"class_list":["post-41504","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-season-two","tag-fiction","tag-novel","tag-podcast","tag-public-books-101","tag-the-novel-now"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Episode 4: Novels &amp; Catastrophe - Public Books<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"How do novels help us see the present in a broader historical perspective?\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-4-novels-catastrophe\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Episode 4: Novels &amp; Catastrophe - Public Books\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"How do novels help us see the present in a broader historical perspective?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-4-novels-catastrophe\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Public Books\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/pages\/Public-Books\/201143656634392\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2021-03-29T15:00:52+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-01-17T02:17:30+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/04_Severance_website.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"800\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Kelley McKinney\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/episode-4-novels-catastrophe\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/episode-4-novels-catastrophe\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Kelley McKinney\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/b34e4cdd6208183e5faf859ee4196f2c\"},\"headline\":\"Episode 4: Novels &#038; 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