{"id":41498,"date":"2021-03-15T10:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-03-15T15:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/?p=41498"},"modified":"2026-01-16T20:17:31","modified_gmt":"2026-01-17T02:17:31","slug":"episode-2-novels-political-consciousness","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-2-novels-political-consciousness\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 2: Novels &#038; Political Consciousness"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The novel may be the best technology we have for transmitting human consciousness. But novels like Leo Tolstoy&#8217;s <em>Anna Karenina<\/em> don&#8217;t\u00a0just give us a window into characters&#8217; suffering minds. They also turn pain and oppression into beautiful literary prose. How does reading novels affect our understanding of the world we live in and the power dynamics that shape our lives?<\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\">In the second episode of Season 2 of\u00a0<em>Public Books 101<\/em><em>,<\/em> novelist Elif Batuman and scholar Merve Emre join our host, Nicholas Dames, to debate whether novels depoliticize us, or, like Sakaya Murata\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780802129628\"><em>Convenience Store Woman<\/em><\/a>, show readers what a life of freedom could look like.<\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><iframe style=\"width: 100%; max-width: 660px; overflow: hidden; background: transparent;\" src=\"https:\/\/embed.podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/novels-political-consciousness-elif-batuman-merve-emre\/id1523686748?i=1000512932765\" height=\"175\" frameborder=\"0\" sandbox=\"allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>Subscribe to <\/em>Public Books 101 <em>on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/public-books-101\/id1523686748\">Apple<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/52pDLXxtxQOEJTaFPBSi3n?si=sxF5lvz8RUebjh2XzWZMcA\">Spotify<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/shoe-leather\/public-books-101\">Stitcher<\/a>, or <a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/podcast\/fffa8970-a8e4-0138-e68d-0acc26574db2\">Pocket Casts<\/a> <\/em><em>to listen and to be notified when new episodes are released. Our RSS feed is available\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/public-books-101.castos.com\/feed\">here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>View a transcript of the episode <a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/S2E2-BatumanEmre_transcript_FINAL.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Our guests<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Elif Batuman<\/strong> is author of the novel <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780143111061\"><em>The Idiot<\/em><\/a> (2017), a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in fiction, and <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780374532185\"><em>The Possessed<\/em><\/a> (2010), a collection of comic interconnected essays about Russian literature. She has a PhD in comparative literature from Stanford University and has been a staff writer at the <em>New Yorker<\/em> since 2010.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Merve Emre<\/strong> is associate professor of English at the University of Oxford. She is author of <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780226473970\"><em>Paraliterary: The Making of Bad Readers in Postwar America<\/em><\/a> (2017) and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781101974148\"><em>The Personality Brokers<\/em><\/a> (2018), and coauthor of\u00a0<em><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780231194570\">The Ferrante Letters<\/a>\u00a0<\/em>(2019). Merve\u2019s essays and criticism have appeared in the\u00a0<em>New Yorker<\/em>, the<em>\u00a0Atlantic<\/em>, the\u00a0<em>London Review of Books<\/em>, and\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/author\/merve-emre\/\"><em>Public Books<\/em><\/a>, among other publications.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Nicholas Dames<\/strong>, this season\u2019s host, is an editor in chief of\u00a0<em>Public Books<\/em> and the\u00a0Theodore Kahan Professor of Humanities in the department of English and comparative literature at Columbia University. His most recent book is <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780199208968\"><em>The Physiology of the Novel: Reading, Neural Science, and the Form of Victorian Fiction<\/em><\/a> (2007). He has written on contemporary fiction, novel reading, and the humanities for the <em>Atlantic<\/em>,\u00a0<em>n+1<\/em>, the<em>\u00a0Nation<\/em>,\u00a0<em>New Left Review<\/em>, the<em>\u00a0New Yorker<\/em>, and the<em> New York Times Book Review<\/em>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Mentioned in this episode<\/h4>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Books<\/strong>: Alexander Pushkin&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Eugene Onegin<\/em>; Leo Tolstoy&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Anna Karenina<\/em>; Vladimir Nabokov&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Lolita<\/em>; Miguel de Cervantes\u2019s\u00a0<em>Don Quixote<\/em>; Thomas Hardy&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Jude the Obscure<\/em>; Jane Austen&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Pride and Prejudice<\/em>; Sakaya Murata&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Earthlings<\/em>; Shulamith Firestone&#8217;s\u00a0<em>The Dialectic of Sex<\/em>; Elena Ferrante&#8217;s Neapolitan novels; Douglas Stuart&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Shuggie Bain<\/em><\/li>\n<li><strong>Authors<\/strong>: Herbert Marcuse, Sigmund Freud, Ren\u00e9 Girard, Marcel Proust<\/li>\n<li><strong>Articles, essays, quotes<\/strong>: &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/web-japan.org\/nipponia\/nipponia19\/en\/feature\/feature03.html#:~:text=Japan%20first%20Seven%2DEleven%20convenience,more%20than%2070%20years%20ago.\">A Mini History of Convenience Stores in Japan<\/a>&#8221; (2001); <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2017\/02\/28\/books\/review-elif-batuman-idiot.html\">review<\/a> of Batuman&#8217;s\u00a0<em>The Idiot<\/em> in the\u00a0<em>New York Times<\/em> (2017); Martin Amis <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/books\/booksblog\/2011\/jun\/09\/genre-hopping-jane-austen\">on the dearth of sex<\/a> in\u00a0<em>Pride and Prejudice<\/em>; Adrienne Rich&#8217;s &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.jstor.org\/stable\/3173834?seq=1\">Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence<\/a>&#8221; (1980)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h4 class=\"nonindented\">Further reading<\/h4>\n<p class=\"nonindented\">Elif recommends:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Shulamith Firestone, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781570270826\"><em>Airless Spaces<\/em><\/a> (1998)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Shulamith Firestone, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780374527877\"><em>The Dialectic of Sex<\/em><\/a> (1970)<\/span><\/li>\n<li>Adrienne Rich,\u00a0&#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.jstor.org\/stable\/3173834?seq=1\">Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence<\/a>&#8221; (1980)<\/li>\n<li>Adrienne Rich,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780393541427\"><em>Of Woman Born<\/em><\/a> (1976)<\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Leo Tolstoy, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780143035008\">Anna Karenina<\/a>\u00a0<\/em>(1878)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Leo Tolstoy, &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781787247307\">The Kreutzer Sonata<\/a>&#8221; (1889)<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"nonindented\">Merve recommends:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Gustave Flaubert, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/search\/site\/Flaubert%252C%2520Sentimental%2520Education\"><em>Sentimental Education<\/em><\/a> (1869)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Georg Luk\u00e1cs, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9780262620277\"><em>The Theory of the Novel<\/em><\/a> (1916)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sylvia Townsend Warner, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781590173169\"><em>Summer Will Show<\/em><\/a> (1936)<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">John A. Williams, <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.harvard.com\/book\/9781585675807\"><em>The Man Who Cried I Am<\/em><\/a> (1967)<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"nonindented\"><em>This episode was produced by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/author\/annie-galvin\/\">Annie Galvin<\/a> and is\u00a0<span class=\"il\">licensed<\/span>\u00a0under a\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/4.0\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/4.0\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1615048763226000&amp;usg=AFQjCNFMQdN4dqK_KF19UTzPdrjKeA-Jmw\">Creative Commons-Attribution\u00a0<span class=\"il\">License<\/span><\/a> (CC-BY 4.0)<\/em>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How does reading novels affect our understanding of the power dynamics that shape our lives?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":24,"featured_media":41499,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1982],"tags":[17,150,1712,1894,1991],"pbpartner":[],"section":[],"pbseries":[],"class_list":["post-41498","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-season-two","tag-fiction","tag-novel","tag-podcast","tag-public-books-101","tag-the-novel-now"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Episode 2: Novels &amp; Political Consciousness - Public Books<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"How does reading novels affect our understanding of the power dynamics that shape our lives?\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-2-novels-political-consciousness\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Episode 2: Novels &amp; Political Consciousness - Public Books\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"How does reading novels affect our understanding of the power dynamics that shape our lives?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/episode-2-novels-political-consciousness\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Public Books\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/pages\/Public-Books\/201143656634392\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2021-03-15T15:00:05+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-01-17T02:17:31+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.publicbooks.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/02_csw_website.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"800\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Kelley McKinney\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/episode-2-novels-political-consciousness\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/episode-2-novels-political-consciousness\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Kelley McKinney\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.publicbooks.org\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/b34e4cdd6208183e5faf859ee4196f2c\"},\"headline\":\"Episode 2: Novels &#038; 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